Capturing Lay Down & More Bow Work
Yesterday I again brought Boomerang out to work on his bow work. Day #2 proved to have much progress for him. He is now consistently lifting his leg when I tap and holding it up with not as much guidance from me. He is also offering knee to the ground almost every time. He still has to get the hang of making sure his back legs are far enough back to compensate for the lowering of the front half of his body, but he’ll get there. With a few more sessions he should have this trick mastered, which is when I will put the final verbal cue onto it. The cool part will hopefully be transferring it over to saddle. I never got to do that with Minnow because I had to retire him from ridden work before we mastered this. I could probably still get him to do it, but I feel mean asking since I know how painful putting his weight on just one leg is – add the weight of a rider to that and it would be even worse. Perhaps if he could loose some weight first I’d be able to try – but since he can’t be exercised that proves even harder.
Here’s a clip of Boomer’s bow progress:
During our bow session I noticed Boomer showing signs of wanting to lay down in the soft sand. I let him lay then clicked him and sat with him for 5 minutes just feeding and petting him. Then I asked him stand again and used my target stick to get his nose to the ground. I myself began pawing the ground to entice him to do the same to ready a spot for himself. A few minuted later and he was back on the ground again. I got him to repeat this about 5 times. The best part was he offered all this while my parent’s aussie mix was running around barking like crazy and my dad had started up the 4wheeler so he could water the arena. How’s that for a bombproof pony!
**I added music to this clip because all you can hear in the background is my parent’s dog barking like crazy. 🙂
I’m hoping with a few more sessions we’ll have the bow and lay down mastered so that we can debut them at MGAA Nationals!
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I taught my two horses how to bow with the clicker! It was fun!! Nice ponies! And I love your doggie!
Kyley,
I am sending someone your way who is trying to teach her horse to bow.
I gave her this link to your blog, I remembered this post but couldn’t remember if you had any more videos or blog posts about teaching the bow.
Anyways, I told her you had several very well performing ponies and that you might be able to give her some tips or suggestions.
She recently posted a bit about bowing on her blog:
http://www.samlennon.net/blog/?p=1047
(Her horse Pie is pretty awesome–he’s a brave and mighty knight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiPbYCZbjbo )
cheers,
Mary
Hi,
Mary Hunter suggested I contact you. I’ve been clicker training my Pie, an OTTB, slowly since he broke down while winning a race (11-02-08). He and I worked as a team at the track and it was almost logical that he was given to me after his career ending injury. Our trainer let me keep him at the track for the first three months of his lay-up as a bonus to both of us for our efforts.
We took up CT-ing because Pie started to show visible signs of depression. On his stall rest. I’ve been very slow to work bowing into the repetoir of his behaviors for a variety of reasons. But now seems to be good. He’s in good health.
The thing is, I am floored that after two days that Boomer offered so much?! How’d you do that? Are there other things that you taught him to get him comfortable putting his head that low? We really just aren’t at all close to where you and Boomer were at day 2! (totally impressive)
It is clear that I need to get Pie to relax more while we’re doing this exercise. Pie tends to be a bit over zealous with everything (recall that this horse ended his career in order to win a race – the jockey never whipped him – Pie’s just driven).
Any of your feedback will be greatly appreciated. Katie has already given me feedback and it is great. I just really like to get as much good advice as possible. Pie is pretty special to me. Well, in truth, he’s pretty much the center of my universe, so I want to make sure I do right by him. ; )
I hope to get some video of what we are doing sometime this weekend, so maybe that will help.
Here’s the link to what I’ve written about it so far:
http://www.samlennon.net/blog/?p=1047
thank you in advance for any help!
Susan and Pie
Hi Susan.
First of all I should probably explain that Boomerang is unlike ANY horse I have ever worked with! He’s quite unique. He’s completely unflappable, as in I’ve had him wrapped in tarps laying on the ground, I’ve blindfolded him and walked him over bridges – you get the drift. In a way he’s blind-fully trusting, and if food is involved he’d walk through quicksand to get it. That being said, his response to things is probably not how most horses would react.
My first trick pony, Minnow, is probably a better example of the “norm” in my trick training experience. In fact he came from a neglectful situation, so training him to bow was a HUGE obstacle to overcome as it terrified him to be in such a vulnerable position.
AS I don’t know “all” the backstory in what you have done with Pie, the best I can do is offer to tell you how I’ve taught the bow…..
For Minnow I started off with a leadrope tied around his ankle (Boomer I used no leadrope because he prefers to be untethered). For Minnow it was more for my ease in lifting his foot as he’s tiny at 13.1 hands and I’m pretty tall. I started by tapping his cannon bone with a target stick, then pulling on the rope to lift his foot. When his foot was lifted I clicked. I did this for several days/weeks until he started lifting his foot on his own. Then I would lift his foot, and hold the rope to keep his foot suspended. I then used a food lure to get him to lower his head to the ground. Every few days I progressed to asking him to lean further and further, until it got to the point that he had to put his knee to the ground if he wanted to go further. Once his knee touched the ground for the first time I jack-potted him and made a huge fuss. (I should also mention when i reward them I give the food to them underneath them, so they know that thats where it comes from, they won’t get it when they stand back up). After the initial knee to the ground I switched to using a target stick to entice their noses to the ground. Still making sure I reward them in the bow position. I’ve been lucky that the Chincoteague Ponies are very quick learners, and it didn’t take much after that for me to remove the rope and be able to just tap his ankle to get him to go down.
Boomer was taught in the same way except I didn’t use a rope and just held up his foot. When I noticed he would practically fall to the ground to get the food, I quickly realized I could also use this to capture a laydown. As you can see from the video he offered it almost immediately. I’ll probably never come across another pony like him again, he’s one in a million!
I hope that helps you, if you have any other questions let me know…
here’s a post (and video) about when I was first teaching Boomer. http://trickponies.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/boomerangs-bow/ – this was the very first time he offered knee to the ground. As you can see the hardest part for them is to figure out they need to move their back end out so they can reach the ground with their knee. and this is a video of day #3 of his bow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxWpuqV1gq4
Oh and I forgot to mention….I see ur messages pop up on the clicker training email group occasionally (which I should admit I hardly ready anyone’s because there are always so many and I never seem to have enough time)….but the first few times I saw “Pie” pop up I got very confused because I recently met a girl named Sarah, who has a “Pie” as well….but is a Chincoteague Pony, and she’s been occasionally asking me advice about the clicker training and the tricks. So now I’m going to really have to pay attention to keep the “Pie’s” straight! 🙂
this is very helpful. I really like the idea of giving the treat low to the ground. I’ve also decided I’m going to teach this trick on both sides. My Pie has had sooooo many different physical issues as the ex-racer. While it will be an additional challenge, I think it will help his back more if we do this.
Incidentally, I had no idea how popular ‘Pie’ is as a name for horses. I had completely forgotten about National Velvet when I gave him that nickname at the track. The day he got nicknamed Pie was after I’d been riding him for about a week (and the love affair was cemented), I’d stopped by my parents’ house and they told me about Jimmy Stewart’s horse Pie. I just knew that Misty’s Hope (Pie) and I were going to be something special to each other so to seal the deal, I started calling him Pie after Jimmy’s Pie.
Who knew how much would be in that decision to call him that?
So, here’s to the Pies!!
Seriously, thanks again.
And thanks for letting me know that Boomer falls into a unique category. You could easily have told me that it’s due to your gift at training and I’d have believed you and considered giving up, so thanks for that, too!
; )
Susan and Pie